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Просто цитата - Ваши рубидии уже у кобальта во ртути

Sep. 14th, 2016

04:46 pm - Просто цитата

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Из местной газеты: Women have long been underrepresented in the tech industry that's notorious for treating women with hostility and paying them less than men to do the same job.

Интересно, насколько надо быть идиотом, чтобы враждебно относиться к относительно дешевой рабочей силе при прочих равных, и похожа ли индустрия высоких технологий на сборище идиотов.

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From:solomon2
Date:September 15th, 2016 12:11 am (UTC)
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А разгадка проста - враждебно к женщинам относятся не те, кто их нанимает, а те, кто с ними конкурирует за рабочие места.

Edited at 2016-09-15 12:12 am (UTC)
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From:spamsink
Date:September 15th, 2016 12:58 am (UTC)
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Тогда формулировка неправильная, потому что меньше платят те, кто нанимает, а враждебно относятся совсем другие.

Edited at 2016-09-15 01:20 am (UTC)
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From:zveriozha
Date:September 15th, 2016 01:51 am (UTC)
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Мне вообще непонятно, как индустрия может "относиться к кому-то". Она не имеет эмоций.
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From:fatoff
Date:September 15th, 2016 04:04 am (UTC)
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Индус-трия полная эмоций. :)
Есличо, я к ней принадлежу.
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From:stas
Date:September 15th, 2016 03:09 am (UTC)
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Расисты и сексисты руководствуются не логикой, а животной ненавистью, которой нет и не может быть логического обьяснения.
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From:spamsink
Date:September 15th, 2016 05:36 am (UTC)
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Так все -исты ею руководствуются.
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From:vitus_wagner
Date:September 15th, 2016 04:37 am (UTC)
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Еще как похожа. Все кто в этой индустрии работал уверены, что менеджеры в ней - поголовно идиоты. Все кто руководил - уверены, что идиоты сотрудники, ну кроме тех, кто успешно вырос в менеджеры.
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From:spamsink
Date:September 15th, 2016 05:27 am (UTC)
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Нет, не все уверены. Зависит от promotion policy в конкретной компании.
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From:zeinab_bint_ali
Date:September 15th, 2016 04:39 am (UTC)
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Spoiler: human beings are not (absolutely) rational. Upbringing breeds preconceptions, preconception influence perception, perception forms attitude.

Women in labor force in traditionally male roles are on historical scale very new, so normal xenophobia rules apply.

Recent immigrants are always underpaid and hated, aren't they?
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From:fatoff
Date:September 15th, 2016 04:43 am (UTC)
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* Recent immigrants are always underpaid and hated, aren't they?

М... if they crossed the border by foot somewhere in the desert... When I was fresh off the plane and my salary was below the market it was already above average. Did anyone hate me? Cannot remember.
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From:fatoff
Date:September 15th, 2016 04:41 am (UTC)

А вот ещё картина достойная пера

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Как-то попался эпизодик в новостях о недостаточном представительстве colored меньшинств в индустрии. И корреспондент нимало сумняшеся снимает помещение полное программистов где-то в Фэйсбуке, где полно индусов с китайцами. То есть, вопрос был в том, где латинос и афро? А они, вот, обещали в прошлом году, а доля 0.7% снизилась до 0.4%.

Это известно у кого из *кандидатов* на повестке дня. Пообещать дать.
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From:stas
Date:September 15th, 2016 05:20 pm (UTC)

Re: А вот ещё картина достойная пера

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Вы неправильно толкуете ситуацию, не дать, а взять. В смысле, бабла у индустрии много, и они даже часто заносят кому надо, но всё-таки ощущается непозволительня вольница. Надо взять од партийный контроль. А как? Путём внедрения контроля diversity и прочих необходимых мер.
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From:zeinab_bint_ali
Date:September 15th, 2016 05:43 am (UTC)
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Personally I have not met that much hostility, rather suspicion and mockery. Well, that didn't last :)
And anyway was nothing to someone who's been growing as a Jew in USSR :)

All the same I am definitely underpaid compared to male peers because I have less options - plenty of companies simply won't consider female CIO to start with. Barring major relocation it limits opportunities severely, so company is less motivated to retain.
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From:zeinab_bint_ali
Date:September 15th, 2016 05:50 am (UTC)
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I am vividly reminded by discussions with non-Jewish friends who honestly don't believe there was any antisemitism in USSR either.

And anyway if there was any it was well deserved.

:)
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From:zeinab_bint_ali
Date:September 15th, 2016 05:59 am (UTC)
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Anyway, have arrived to the office so off I go for another day of hostility and underpayment :)
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From:alon_68
Date:September 15th, 2016 07:53 am (UTC)
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Ну, тут можно объяснить, что hostility и выражается в paying them less.
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From:5x6
Date:September 23rd, 2016 11:36 am (UTC)
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Brief answers:
1. No, one does not need to be an idiot to be hostile to cheaper workforce. There are are numerous reasons beyond sheer cost. For instance, perceived reliability (women are perceived to be more devoted to their family and take more sick days), misevaluation due to perceived inferiority (tnere have been studies indicating that the same sample work has been evaluated differently by experts depending on the gender of the evaluated oerson, even when the evaluator was female), perceived potential for unfair promotion.
2. Yes, the high tec industry does look very much as a collection of idiots.
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From:old_sam
Date:September 24th, 2016 11:31 pm (UTC)
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I've been in that industry for 20 years. There are plenty of women in it. Some are quite high up and are paid alot better than me (I'm a systems architect, currently in a large investment bank), but rarely they are in "productive" positions. That doesn't mean they are useless - to the contrary. But they rarely create, design or do deep debugging. Thay prefer areas like project management, account administration, security design or advisory, user support - anythung that has a more or less defined set of rules and recipes and doesn't recuire a lot of creativity.

I don't have a good theory explaining that.

--
Cohen the barbarian
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From:old_sam
Date:September 24th, 2016 11:20 pm (UTC)
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Эта пропаганда работает. За голы жизни в Америке меня убедили, что от негров надо держаться подальше во всех смыслах. Еще немного, и я поверю, что женщины природно глупы.

--
Коган-варвар
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